Romans 13:1-7

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Pastor
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Romans 13:1-7

Post by Pastor » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:37 pm

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV

This topic is sure to stir the pot. Keep the discussion both civil and Christian ;)
Consider the conflict that is currently present within our culture. Undoubtedly, several examples easily come to mind without my prompting. There is guidance in the text.
Already in Chap 1 Paul acknowledges God's ultimate authority. Paul restates it again in our text, "There is no authority except from God." Humanities failure to acknowledge and abide by this is where all subsequent problems begin. When we reject God's authority things unravel.
God delegates His authority. The most obvious example being His appointment of the Risen Lord as Judge. Paul surprises many in our text by saying God also delegate authority to humans in governing positions. People are directed to submit to these authorities as they submit to God Himself.
Simple and easy, right?
But what if I disagree or don't like what an authorities is asking me to do? Am I free to disobey?
Consider this-Jesus and the apostles never disobeyed based on personal reasons/individual preferences. Disobedience was a response to an authority's insistence that God be disobeyed. And this response often carried a cost.
I believe that Paul's words and Jesus' example calls on Christians to respect those in authority. These authorities have a divine appointment. Christians should "be subject" to such authority. The extent of this submission reveals the extent to which a Christian's mind has been renewed by the Holy Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit enlightens our minds to see secular powers in such a light.

J.Matson
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Re: Romans 13:1-7

Post by J.Matson » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:29 pm

"Governing authorities" would imply pagan as well as non-pagan authorities. Consider that, in St Paul's time, many ruling bodies were most likely pagan. Regardless, for civil order to prevail, we must all follow the authority that has been placed over us in society. Verse 1, however, begs the question, "Are all authorities really established by God?" What about ISIS? If ISIS infiltrated our government in the U.S., and essentially took over, would we be compelled to follow their command?

OAKPROA
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Re: Romans 13:1-7

Post by OAKPROA » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:39 pm

To see government authority as the focal point in this passage is an interpretative mistake. Paul is speaking to Judean nonbelievers' and Gentile believers' relationship to God. In this sense, the synagogue rulers are the interpreters of the Torah, and Paul encourages Gentile believers to give them their due respect.
Many will not be convinced that the original context is a Judean one. They believe that this passage refers to modern day “authorities” and have an incorrect perspective.
Martin Luther addressed this self-same issue regarding secular government when he spoke from the pulpit saying:
“There are lazy and useless preachers,” he thundered, “who do not denounce the evils of princes and lords, some because they do not even notice them. ... Some even fear for their skins and worry that they will lose body and goods for it. They do not stand up and be true to Christ!”
He of course said that “governing authorities are actually responsible for SAFETY (military etc.) and transportation (roads etc.). And in regard to politicians, he once said they “are generally the biggest fools and worst scoundrels on earth, but God will find them out, better than anyone else can, as indeed he has done since the beginning of the world.”
Our final authority is found in Christ’s own words found in Mark 12:17…“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” Sola scriptura once again.
Harry

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JGraham
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Re: Romans 13:1-7

Post by JGraham » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:29 pm

J.Matson wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:29 pm
Verse 1, however, begs the question, "Are all authorities really established by God?" What about ISIS? If ISIS infiltrated our government in the U.S., and essentially took over, would we be compelled to follow their command?
I heard this discussed in a lecture once, though the case study was Mao Zedong instead of ISIS. (I forget the lecturer but remember this point.) The conclusion was given that the person/people in authority are indeed established by God, in that He allowed them to achieve that position of power. They then have the responsibility to be good stewards of that authority and use it in a God pleasing manner. For those under authority, our responsibility is to obey any and all of the laws that don't contradict scripture.

So if, God forbid, ISIS took over, did away with the first amendment, and required Christians to pay the jizya (tax on non-Muslims), I believe I would be obliged to pay it, even though I would find it repugnant as an American. If, on the other hand, the ISIS authorities told me to renounce my faith and convert to Islam, I believe my obligation would be to tell them to go hang. (Okay, I probably should phrase my refusal more politely...)

J.Matson
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Re: Romans 13:1-7

Post by J.Matson » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:37 pm

Isaiah 45: " I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." So, let God be God. He will take care of things, maybe not in our lifetimes, but He will take care of things. Our task is to remain true to our faith in Jesus Christ.

Mary Treasa
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Re: Romans 13:1-7

Post by Mary Treasa » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:53 am

"He gives his strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak" Isaiah 40:29
Very meaningful words from the book of Isaiah. God has a plan for everything. We are supposed to live according to his plans.
I shifted to my new house last month. Although I started living in the new house, the construction works are not yet over. I need safes for each room. As my budget is limited, I prefer safes that are cheap. Can someone suggest good companies that provide safes? I have heard that there are different types of safes. But which safe will be ideal for a house? The main aim of having a safe is to protect the jewelry and other important documents. I think a combination burglary and fire rated safe will provide both fire and burglary protection. I also wish to have [link removed]. What do you think about it? I'm sure that the God who had helped us till now will shower his blessings on us hereafter also.
Last edited by Mary Treasa on Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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BenBauer
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Re: Romans 13:1-7

Post by BenBauer » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:02 pm

Mary Treasa wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:53 am
"He gives his strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak" Isaiah 40:29
Very meaningful words from the book of Isaiah. God has a plan for everything. We are supposed to live according to his plans.
I shifted to my new house last month. ...
God is good for sure!

Appreciate your openness in asking for recommendations, but let's keep the conversation focused on Pastor's original post about Romans 13. We'd love any comments you wish to share on that topic!

Bebout
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Re: Romans 13:1-7

Post by Bebout » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:53 am

I really enjoyed this one. I've got nothing to add, just wanted to say that.

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